Lawrence ‘Tom’ Sawyer, at the time of filming Deputy General Secretary of the National Union of Public Employees (NUPE) talking with Bob Davies of Trade Films about his work to build up the influence of NUPE within both the trade union movement and Labour Party and to focus attentions on improving conditions and pay of public section employees. Tom talks in details about the many challenges he faced as well as some of the battles he has fought. In the final part of the interview Tom talks...

Lawrence ‘Tom’ Sawyer, at the time of filming Deputy General Secretary of the National Union of Public Employees (NUPE) talking with Bob Davies of Trade Films about his work to build up the influence of NUPE within both the trade union movement and Labour Party and to focus attentions on improving conditions and pay of public section employees. Tom talks in details about the many challenges he faced as well as some of the battles he has fought. In the final part of the interview Tom talks about the importance of the welfare state and the current challenges of Margaret Thatcher’s Conservative government. Title: “This… Trade Union called N.U.P.E.” Sitting in an attic room overlooking the Swing Bridge and River Tyne below, Tom Sawyer talks with Bob Davies about his early career as an engineer, moving to Coventry in the early 1960s to find work and his first experience of strong trade union organisation becoming a Shop Steward at the Lockheed Brakes company in Lemington Spa. Having returned to the region to work at Cummins Engines factory in his hometown of Darlington, he decided aged 27 to work full-time for the trade union movement finding a position with the National Union of Public Employees (NUPE) in 1971. Tom talks about his responsibilities at NUPE as an Area Officer for Durham County. Title: Building up the Union. Organising … “where other people wouldn’t go” Tom talks about his initial impression of the public section which included hundreds of employees who weren’t members of a trade union as well as many women who worked part-time. He goes onto talk about the work he did to encourage more to join the union and to develop a ‘trade union consciousness’. There are currently 48,000 NUPE members in the region, it’s success Tom attributes to two things; firstly the willingness of NUPE to organise in rural areas where other larger unions traditionally didn’t go and secondly by having a campaigning style of unionism that attracted people to them. Title: Building up the Union. “Strong organisation and a good trade union position” Tom explains that the north was considered by the union to be the most organised and militant, he talks about how this was done with reference to the Warwick Report of 1975. Title: A Proper Position of Influence Bob Davies asks how NUPE has been able to establish credibility in the north-east, Tom explains it has been achieved by people at the grassroots as a force at local level. Tom goes onto talk about the challenges of become an established union and the need to take its proper place in the movement while at the same time try and keep themselves as a radical cutting-edge independent trade union. References to mistakes made by a previous generation of trade unionist are made by Tom intercut with a series of newspaper headlines relating to T. Dan Smith and Andrew Cunningham. Title: Labour Conservatism in the North East Coalfield Tom provides details of the experiences he had with local councils while as a union organiser and regional officer for NUPE. Most councils had no industrial or personnel policies and Tom gives an example of having to deal with Houghton-le-Spring Urban District Council who were run mainly by miners or those who served in the army. Tom compares working in the private sector with what he has seen and experienced in the public, he describes many local councils as being like Victorian employers working to traditional values and not willing to change. However, today he does see improvements there are now better standards of industrial relations. Tom explains that the region hasn’t attracted the same kind of radicalism in the Labour Party as has been seen in London and South Yorkshire, this he believes because of the weight and the burden of tradition. He provides details linking the regions lack of radicalism to the traditional conciliatory attitude of the coal miner whose industry the region was built upon. Title: Industrial Militancy in the Public Sector Tom is asked about some of his highlights relating to NUPE’s militant actions during the 1970s, he gives examples and provide details with regards the Dirty Job’s strike of 1969, the 1973 ambulance and health workers strike in County Durham and public service workers strikes in 1974 against public expenditure cuts. Detail as well as other examples are provided, all done as Tom says to improve public sector pay and conditions. Title: The so-called “Winter of Discontent”. “A gross error of judgement” All the disputes mentioned above culminated with the Winter of Discontent, Tom gives his account of the period and the struggles with the Labour government. Tom believes it was a ‘gross error of judgement’ for the then Labour government to put a 5% limit on all public sector pay, even when both the Labour party and Trade Union Congress (TUC) had agreed on the importance of increasing it having experienced almost 20 years of restraint under other Labour governments. Title: Banging the Drum in the Labour Party With NUPE assumed a prominent role in Labour Party politics, Tom is asked how easy it has been to put across his union’s perspective. He says it has been difficult, he believes the Labour Party hasn’t been listening to its own supports and it is his job to bring the ‘common touch’ on issues of low pay and opposing privatisation. Tom continues by stating that he was the first NUPE official to be elected to Labour’s National Executive Committee (NEC) in 1981 where he saw again issues of low pay were not being addressed, it was his job to make sure they were. Title: Defending and advancing the Welfare State Tom is asked what his understanding of the term Welfare State, he replies it is a first step to a transitional programme towards a socialist society. He provides further details with regards collective provision in welfare, heath as well as education and social services which he says are the basic principles of a socialist society which are being undermined by the present Conservative government of Margaret Thatcher. Tom is asked about extra difficulties that are faced today in mounting campaigns to defend the welfare state. Tom replies that the union needs to recognition the importance of the public and draw broader campaigns and create strong links with community organisations who also care about the welfare state. A major re-think is needed with regards the provision of services in which services provided belong to the people rather than them being simply consumers of it. Tom believes it is an exciting time to be in public service and sees the problems facing the welfare state could lead to a new way of looking at it. Title: The Tory attack on the Unions Bob asks what effects have two recently introduced industrial relations acts by the Conservatives had on NUPE. Tom sees them as a serious offensive against the trade unions movement, to weaken the ability to represent their members and get them fair pay. Their effectiveness will be dependent upon what kind of campaign that can be lead against them. He also sees the laws as a kind of blessing-in-disguise in that it givens NUPE and opportunity to polities its membership. Tom is asked if he is fearful of proposed legislation banning strikes by essential workers. He replied he would make it clear to his members that they have a right to combine together and fight for better conditions. He feels he would have a moral obligation not to obey. Title: Reflections on the North East On being asked to reflect on the region having lived in London for a year, Tom states clearly his roots are in the north-east and to keep in-touch with them, there are importance strengths in the region that are important to the Labour movement and the future of trade unionism in Great Britain. Credit: Camera Peter Woodhouse Sound and VTR Graham Denman Title: Thanks to Rich Grassick and the North East Photo Co-op, NUPE Divisional Office (Northern Region) Title: Made under the terms of the A.C.T.T. Workshop Declaration and with the financial assistance of Channel Four Television and the British Film Institute Title: A Trade Films Production © Trade Films 1984 End title: Distributors. Northern Film and T.V. Archive, 36 Bottle Bank, Gateshead, Tyne and Wear, NE8 2AR. Tel 0632 773601